[Vimoutliner] vorst

[David J Patrick]

On Thu, Oct 18, 2007 at 12:15:20PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thursday 18 October 2007 09:12, David J Patrick wrote:
> > In my ongoing quest to use vimoutliner for EVERYTHING I have been working
> > hard at getting (for starters) a really good, LaTeX book output. At my
> > urging, a rather brilliant friend has hacked together a perl script
> > (otl2latex; to be shared once stable) that does quite a reasonable job.
> 
> I'm on that like a squirrel on a tree! Please, please please have your friend 
> contact me to find out the kind of stuff I do with LaTeX, and please please 
> please urge him to use reasonable Perl and use it consistently so the rest of 
> us can personalize it.
I've alerted HER to your interest, and I should be able to goad her into
releasing it soon (it still needs work, to work nice with VO)
> 

> I might be able to help. See my Easy Menu Definition Language (EMDL) at 
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/projects/emdl/index.htm. Valid menus are much 
> more restrictive than valid .otl files, so I made a set of standards and an 
> otl to .mnu converter with built in validator. I think the same thing can be 
> done with LaTeX.
I've looked at it, almost understand it, and it might be a perfect
approach. There are just too many ways to skin a cat, but so few reasons. 
> 
> 
[snip]
> I'm not sure how commands would be implemented.

 that makes two of us, but the simplest way is always the best way. 
> Anyway, nowhere in the outline itself would these environments, commands and 
> character styles be defined. Those would be defined in a stylesheet to be 
> merged with the translated outline.
> 
100% agreed
> 
> > It's in python, and (to my feeble mind) 
> > I imagine that it /should/ be possible rewrite the VimReStructuredText plug
> > in to harmonize with VO format (ignore, or USE leading whitespace as
> > section definition, drop requirement for blank spaces, and way more)
> > presuming said python genius/ VO hacker found it an itch worth scratching.
> >
> > It would mean (to selfish ol' me) that I could slam things together in VO
> > and blatt out rich and finely formatted web pages and hardcopy.
> 
> You would be doing the world a HUGE favor. Please bear in mind that because 
> this is the antitheses of WYSIWYG, the conversion/display must happen very 
> rapidly so that the author can continuously check his work. Also, it must be 
> very simple to reduce errors preventing compilation (and all the debugging 
> work that goes with them). A lightning quick "lint" program might be in 
> order, and I think I can do that in C if needbe (I'd prototype it in Ruby, 
> and then when it's exactly right do it in C so it rips).
that sounds like a good approach to me, Mr. Litt, having done this sort of
thing before, you'd know better than I.
> 
> If you do this, and if it turns out to really be practical for writing books 
> (I won't know that til I've used it), your project will probably get its own 
> Linux Productivity Magazine issue.
woohoo ! more press !
but yes, if /we/ did this, it could be really good for sane writers and
publishers everywhere, and the method should be adaptable to all manner of
output. 
> 
> >
> > Not expecting anything, but I just wanted to put these bugs in your ears.
> 
> Here's where I see the big problem. This might turn out a lot like LyX -- it's 
> very easy to author the stuff, but defining the necessary environments, 
> commands and character styles (which are really just commands) can be 
> exceptionally difficult.
I've stood in front of that wall, gaping in horror, but my sysadmin eats
latex for breakfast and she ain't skeered a bit. The hard part is pulling
her off of ledgersmb.org development long enough to looks at our pesky
problems.
> I don't know how much you've done with LaTeX (for 
> all I know you make me look like a raw newbie), but for most people, LaTeX is 
> an almost unclimbable learning slope.
I'm a 20 year computer hobbyist who managed to suss out shell scripting and
basic, but really can only master latex when it comes in a can of paint. I
did manage, however, to open a linuxcaffe that has become a hub of serious
software types, so while I personally would take several lifetimes to come
up with the solution, I am surrounded by folks wit da skillz. 
> Perhaps, within the confines of my time 
> constraints, I can make some documentation complete with examples of common 
> things to do.
> 
> You do know don't you that this won't be easy?
nothing good ever is. 
If we can define the desired outcome, the needed elements and the steps to
get there, we can plug away at pieces till it works. You can expect some
perl/python/latex genius, at this end, but your vim-savvy is essential. 

I really appreciate the hard driving effort that it took to make VO a
reality, and I wouldn't want to go without it. Anything that allows me to
keep outlining and publish without too much fuss, will make my life a whole
lot easier.

Thanks, you awesome troubleshooter guy, you,
djp